Goddamn the easy way

"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon) 02/17/2015 at 16:46 • Filed to: None

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I'm still fighting my Alfa's valve covers. For those of you new to this saga, the car's previous owner painted the covers, then used RTV instead of the actual gasket to seal it all back up. I found this out when I realized it was time to check valve clearances.

The problem is that the valve cover was overtorqued, squishing the RTV to a degree that I can't even get a razor blade between the head and the cover. I've used heat. HIGH heat. Mallets. Vibration. Chisels and hammers. Fishing line. Putty knives. A dremel. And nothing. Still stuck.

So I likely dropped a valve or broke a pushrod this weekend. I can't get into the head to see what's going on. This is literally the dumbest and most frustrating problem I've ever dealt with while working on a car. And I've owned VW's.

So a friendly tip from one gearhead to another. Don't take the cheap and easy way just because it's cheap and easy. Don't be a dumbass. Nobody likes a dumbass.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 16:49

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Torch to the point of annealing didn't work, or do you not have access to acetylene?

crowmolly > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 16:50

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Sounds like it's not RTV to me. Might be some type of other adhesive.

Got a pic? Can you get at the bottom of the flange from underneath?

Chairman Kaga > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/17/2015 at 17:00

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I had my neighbor's plumbing torch, which is supposed to get to around 3600F. No access to 5000+ degree acetylene. I was also concerned about the proximity to the fuel system. If I proceed with the extreme temperature, I'll have to drain the tank, pull the fuel rail and injectors, remove the fuel lines, plug the hard lines, etc. So that's sort of a last resort, just prior to destroying the covers.

davedave1111 > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:01

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Stupid question, maybe, but have you tried a can of silicone solvent on it? Also, have you tried pulling the valve cover off, rather than trying to get under the edge and prise it free?

Chairman Kaga > crowmolly 02/17/2015 at 17:02

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Nope. It's totally flush. No flange at all. I tried cutting a 1/16" perch for the chisel, but I swear to god the tolerance is so tight that the steel can't separate the pieces. It's nuts.

And I know it's RTV. There's some squished out the sides. I also found the thread on the Alfa BB where the PO posted that he was going to use liquid gasket after the paint job. Why did no one stop him?!?!?!

crowmolly > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:05

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So then there's no way to get a purchase?

I was thinking you could get a floor jack underneath and jack a length of pipe up under a flange somewhere to push it off from underneath using the weight of the car to your advantage.

I'm stunned that it's RTV. I think I've used every type imaginable and have never had it "weld" something shut like this. Guy must have been a real slapnuts using tons of it.

Chairman Kaga > davedave1111 02/17/2015 at 17:06

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Dude, I've tried everything. Brake fluid. Muriatic acid. A freaking hypodermic with silicone solvent.

I tried pulling, but there's no lip or flange to grasp. I could drill into it and place some studs, but the covers are actually pretty soft aluminum and all indications are they would just rip free. Also the problem of getting shavings and burrs in the valvetrain.

I'm two more tries from just smashing the hell out of them and buying a new set. Is catharsis worth $120?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 02/17/2015 at 17:06

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Funny enough, here I am commenting on his problem and at the same time doing a workup of something for a customer who specifies no silicon in their project. Should have been rather obvious there are some solvents he could use based on that, but I didn't think of it.

That being said, he said he can't get in a razor blade, so penetration with solvent might be marginal.

davedave1111 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/17/2015 at 17:07

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Oh, that's a very good point.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:09

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The trouble with the plumbing torch is that you don't have a good way to know how hot it actually is, unless you've got a reader of some kind.

If you do use extreme heat, be sure not to go much over 650F or so. I suppose you could use a graphite stick to carbon the surface and heat until *that* burned, but the propane doesn't heat it up all that fast, and it might just burn off on the way.

Chairman Kaga > crowmolly 02/17/2015 at 17:11

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Not that I've found. At no point does the cover extend beyond the head. It's flush all the way around, except for one nub that's actually on the head. Supposedly that's a square corner for slipping some fishing line under the corner of the gasket.

I'm worried that based on the amount squeezed out on the outside, there was probably a fair bit on the inside. I Googled a not insignificant number of horror stories about guys who had their engines seize because the oil pump pickup screen was clogged with bits of degraded RTV after someone did something similar. Hmm. I just likely broke something that was likely caused by lack of lubrication or excessive heat/friction. Coincidence?

crowmolly > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:13

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Only other thing I can think of is get a slide hammer and use a hook into the oil filler hole.

I do not envy you, good sir.

Big Bubba Ray > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:15

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You ought to try just beating the shit out of them and hoping they pop off! Are new covers expensive?

Chairman Kaga > crowmolly 02/17/2015 at 17:20

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I actually tried that on the other side, where the breather valve goes. I only managed to break the lip... Got worried about further irreparable damage. Again, I'm almost at the point of not caring. A slide hammer would make quick work of the damn things.

davedave1111 > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 17:28

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Well, I'm pretty much out of ideas then. I guess you could smash one, and see if you can learn anything that helps you remove the other. Then you get catharsis, and the satisfaction of winning in the end.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 18:31

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Have you tried something like piano wire instead of fishing line? I'm not claiming to be knowledgeable on any of this but I figure if you can use fishing line that might work, though it is fairly dangerous.

Chairman Kaga > wunderwagen wants a longer roof 02/17/2015 at 18:42

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Does guitar string count? I wrapped a B string (next to skinniest) around a couple of screwdrivers and tried worked it underneath. No go. The E string (the skinniest one) broke in about 5 seconds.

wunderwagen wants a longer roof > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 18:45

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what kind of string? I use steel and silk on my acoustic and know that those are fairly delicate, "normal" copper ones aren't much stronger I think.

desertdog5051 > Chairman Kaga 02/17/2015 at 20:05

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Black RTV is oil resistant. Not impervious to applications of pressure from prying or high heat. You must be doing something wrong. It should be easily released with moderate heat. Or maybe it is not RTV? The fact remains that all silicone based sealers are removable. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Chairman Kaga > desertdog5051 02/18/2015 at 10:41

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I don't know what it is. I pulled off some of the material that squished out the side and hit it with full heat from a propane torch. It never burned or broke down. So maybe it is something else entirely. Must be. There's no reason for me to be having this much trouble otherwise.

desertdog5051 > Chairman Kaga 02/18/2015 at 12:31

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Must be. Let us know what you find. I'm interested.